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A Conversation With A Protestant… August 7, 2010

Posted by The Prodigal Son in Uncategorized.
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Here’s a quote from a website I visited:

“The Gospel-

Sound complicated? It’s not, really. It is simply a matter of believing that Jesus is God’s only begotten Son, and that He came to Earth, was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, died to remove your sin — that original sin you inherited from Adam — then rose again on the third day to assure your future resurrection.

Here is what it takes to be “born again.” It is as simple as ABC:

A – Admit you are a sinner.

B – Believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died and rose again to give you eternal life.

C – Call upon Him in prayer and ask for salvation.”

(…)

So… I ask you – is that  the true Gospel? Or is it a lie invented in the 16th century which only serves to fool people and keep them from the knowledge of the truth and the salvation found in His Church?

Here’s an exchange I had with that person (Someone calling themselves ‘M0k3d’)…

~~~ ~ ~ ~~~

Quote from: Me

“… Sorry but not everyone who says, “Lord, Lord” is going to get into heaven!

There is more to Salvation than belief alone!

You have to read every Scripture with every other Scripture taken into account… you can’t just pick & choose!

You must:

  • 1. Believe that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God; God Himself become incarnate for men’ salvation.
  • 2. Be baptized – in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
  • 3. Receive the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands by someone who is already a member of His Church.
  • 4. Repent and turn from sin, making confession when you do transgress to someone in His Church with the power to bind and loose your sins.
  • 5. Receive His body and blood in the consecrated Eucharist – as often as you can…

The Bible is clear about this… what Bible are you reading?”

They replied:

(Quote from: m0k3d)

“Uh… Sorry Yourself! but…

Faith is not just believing, it is acting on those beliefs. You can believe in a bungee cord but you do not have faith in it until you jump!

“…For by GRACE you have been saved through FAITH; and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God; not as result of WORKS…”

“1. Believe that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God; God Himself become incarnate for men’ salvation.

…I agree!! I would also add that we need to believe that he died for our sins and that we are sinners that NEED his salvation!

2. Be baptized – in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

…Works!! Being baptized is important… for spiritual warfare, but it is not a requirement of salvation!!

3. Receive the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands by someone who is already a member of His Church.

…Works!! …and this is NOT how you receive the holy spirit!!

4. Repent and turn from sin, (…agreed) making confession when you do transgress to someone in His Church with the power to bind and loose your sins.

…Works …and we only need to confess to GOD himself, He is the only one (through the blood of Jesus) with the power to bind and loose sins!!

5. Receive his body and blood in the consecrated Eucharist – as often as you can…

…Works!! there is no need to continually sacrifice Jesus “as often as you can” …He died for our sins once already!!

You are obviously Catholic and not Christian!! There is a big difference!

I am sorry to have to be the one to tell you, but you have been deceived by the Catholic Church. I would suggest that you educate yourself! If you need a crash course take a look at Chris Pintos film “a lamp in the dark”. I would also suggest listening to the audio on salvation and baptism at the top of our home page.

and to answer your question… I read the KJV, and also like to study the original Hebrew and Greek… In other words, I dont just take the “Church”s word on it!

peace in Messiah!”

And my reply to that:

Quote from: Me

“m0k3d,

Hello again…

You said, “Faith is not just believing, it is acting on those beliefs.”

So then what ‘action’ goes with your beliefs? You seem to be an advocate for ‘faith alone’… But there is only one place in Scripture where the words “faith” & “alone” appear together – and that is in this verse:

“You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.”

– James 2:24

Some context…

‘What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe–and tremble!

But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.

You see then that a man is justified by works, and NOT by faith alone. Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.‘

– James 2:14-26

Further responses:

2. You said, “…Works!! Being baptized is important… for spiritual warfare, but it is not a requirement of salvation!!”

“Spiritual warfare”? Nonsense! Through the Sacrament of Holy Baptism we die with Christ and are born again!

Christ said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

– John 3:5

That’s why Peter said, “There is also an antitype which now saves us–baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ”

– I Peter 3:21

3. You said, “…Works!! …and this is NOT how you receive the holy spirit!!”

Yes – it is!

‘Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!”‘

Acts 8:14-20

And here Paul:

‘And finding some disciples he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”

And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.” Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.’

– Acts 19:2-6

4. RE: Confession… God has bestowed the Sacrament of confession on the priesthood within His Church:

‘Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up.

And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.’

– James 5:14-16

‘So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.“‘

– John 20:21-23

5. Concerning the Eucharist…

‘Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.”‘

– John 6:53

‘For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; and when He had given thanks [in Greek – Eucharistesas], He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.

Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep [literally: ‘are dead’].’

– I Corinthians 11:23-30

The Holy Eucharist is communion with Christ; thanksgiving to Him… To refuse – or to receive His body and blood unworthily brings condemnation, causes sickness and death.

As for me – I am not Roman Catholic… I am an (Eastern) Orthodox Christian. I would suggest that YOU educate yourself! Whoever you are listening to now is keeping you from the Sacramental life of His Church!

If you really study the old Greek – then you must know that the O.T. Of the KJV is based on censored Masoretic (Talmudic rabbinical) texts which date from around 1000 AD. The Greek Septuagint O.T. is over 1,200 years older and as well as being uncensored, also contains all of the removed books and verses. ‘King James Only’ is a JOKE!

You said, “I dont just take the “Church”s word on it!”

Scripture was born in and from the Church and must be understood in the Church.

‘And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.’

– I Peter 1:19-21

Peace back at you!”

~~~ ~ ~ ~~~

‘m0k3d’ never did respond any further and has actually purged the conversation from his website (as far as I can tell) which has been changed and moved to HERE.

†IC XC†

†NI KA†

Comments»

1. Что есть разврат « Блоголента - August 7, 2010

[…] The Prodigal Son пишет: I am sorry to have to be the one to tell you, but you have been deceived by the Catholic Church. I would suggest that you educate yourself! If you need a crash course take a look at Chris Pintos film “a lamp in the dark”. … That’s why Peter said, “There is also an antitype which now saves us–baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ”. – I Peter 3:21. 3. You said, “… … […]

2. A Conversation With A Protestant… « Christ Conquers | michaelspieles.com - August 8, 2010

[…] Excerpt from: A Conversation With A Protestant… « Christ Conquers […]

3. 正教会の智 - August 8, 2010

I think you’re finding out that it’s pretty much a waste of time “throwing pearls before swine”, discussing anything with people who say stupid things like “you’re a Catholic, not a Christian” [I bet he has no problem with Mormons…], or who just parrot “you are saved by faith, not works!” out of context [context: “faith without works is dead”].

You see he’s all “whatever works for you, man, everything’s cool” unless he thinks you’re a Roman Catholic.

And of course they always just delete everything anyway.

I find it easier to get along with and discuss the faith seriously with Shintoists, Buddhists, those with no belief at all, than to bang my head against the wall trying to discuss anything with these brainwashed and Masonized Protestants.

4. The Prodigal Son - August 8, 2010

Akira,

Good to hear from you. Hope you’re having a good summer.

Having a discussion (arguing) with a Protestant might end up being a waste of time… but it’s still worth the effort I think. If they are completely honest with themselves – they will see that what I say is actually the truth.

As much as I can stand it – I’ll continue to try to show people the obvious truth that so-called ‘Churchless Christianity’ is nonsense. (See sidebar.) Christ did not found His Church for naught. If I could somehow help to bring someone home to the Church… then it would all be worth it I think.

5. 正教会の智 - August 12, 2010

Yes, I just mean it’s a matter of best using your time and energy. So I find it more rewarding “to get along with and discuss the faith seriously with Shintoists, Buddhists, those with no belief at all, than to bang my head against the wall…”

With Protestants I just ask, “Which came first, the Church or The New Testament”? If they can’t understand that, then they’re virtually “beyond hope”.

Perhaps in future you could save yourself stress by just providing a link to a post here, in which you could just lay out all your points, without having them deleted at someone else’s whim.

6. John Kaniecki - August 15, 2010

Hello,

Hope you are well.

First of all what the website claims to do to get saved is not Biblical.

Akira,

Which came first the Word or the Church?

Love,

John Kaniecki

7. The Prodigal Son - June 10, 2011

It’s sad. I want to laugh… I want to cry.

Who started this nonsense? This gobbledy-gook BS?

This type of stuff just turns people away from the Church.

I swear they start stuff like this to make ‘Christians’ look crazy… And those that do go along with this are lying to themselves – and they know it. What must it be like to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning when you’re living a lie and you know it?!

Damnit!


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